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Wow-Wow (That Certain party) (Вау-вау (That Certain Party)), foxtrot
 

 
 
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Label Transcription:

Base fundSoviet recordings 
Заказ № 10503
Фокстротт "Вау-Вау",
исп. орк. Ама-Джаз п/упр. Пфасмана,
А. Н.
2613
Mirror Transcription: 275. Э. -2613-
Original matrix: MusTrust (electric ... # 275
Label Catalog No Mx/Ctr No Take Order No Censorial No Additional information
MusTrust (electric ... > MusTrust VSNH (el) 275 275 10503 First edition??
Reverse Side 269 269 ––//––
Soviet records > MuzTrust (general list) 2613 -2613- 10503 Alternative numbering
Title Name: Wow-Wow (That Certain party)
Language(s) or Ethnics: american, russian | Catalog category: Jazz Orchestra | Genre (Music Category): Foxtrot
Artist(s): Alexander Tsfasman's Ama-Jazz Orchestra
Composer: Walter Donaldson
Lyrics By:
Accompaniment Type:
Bandmaster or conductor: Alexander Tsfasman
Recording Place: Moscow | Recording Date: 1929
Transfer speed: 78 RPM
Record size: 25 cm | Label size: 90 mm
Additional keywords:  
Label file size: 433.4 KB | 1199x1239 px | Size of file MP3: 6.9 MB | 3:01 | 320 kbps x 44.1 kHz
Hits: 1957 | Label downloads: 41 | Audio downloads: 99
Added by: TheThirdPartyFiles | 08.09.2011 18:19 | Last updated by:  bernikov | 12.06.2012 23:41
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Author Comment
bernikov
Admin
Стереозапись 1929 года
Хотел было проверить совпадает ли данная запись с матрицей 535, для чего поместил фонограмму 535 в левый канал, а эту в правый. После небольшого уменьшение ширины стереобазы получился интересный эффект: оркестр как бы удвоился в своём составе, а сама запись стала волне походить на стерео
  09.09.2011 03:16
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yvsh
Expert
Стереозаписи древних годов
Аналогичным образом можно сделать стереозаписи других произведений, существующих в двух вариантах.
Например, Интернационал 1934 года имеет 2 варианта ГПТ 37 и 37А.
  09.09.2011 06:05
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Adrian
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Comments: 495
Join Date: 03.07.2009
Many years ago I used to have to check that two recording were definitively the same. I used to put each on a turntable (all analogue in those days), and manually synchronize them. When they were just right they would gradually come into phase and out again, giving that stereo 'wave' from left to right or right to left. That proved they were the same recording. Two recordings made at the same session would never give that effect. As you show, they can give an interesting effect but cannot 'position' the instruments in the stereo image.

You may know that someone managed to find two live orchestral recordings that were recorded with two microphones in different positions. They created stereo from them but not very successfully.

The next task was to try to find brown wax cylinders of the same performance, recorded on different machines. From the days when the only way to make many cylinders was to have up to 10 phonographs recording. I don't think they found one.
  09.09.2011 11:18
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bernikov
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Adrian wrote:
The next task was to try to find brown wax cylinders of the same performance, recorded on different machines. From the days when the only way to make many cylinders was to have up to 10 phonographs recording.

Very interesting, I never thought about this possibility! The biggest problem is how to eliminate the speed deviation (detonation) - it can be done by a computer program performing corrective re-sampling "on the fly" and maintaining perfect synchronization, but the program would not be an easy one to code!

In my case it is not "true" stereo, because the instrument positions are not the real ones. But the result is interesting, I think it worth trying more!
  09.09.2011 13:56
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bernikov
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Developing the idea - it's not necessary to be the same band. it should be fine, if two different bands use the same scores and play with the same tempo. Also, one can try to combine not two, but three or more versions.
  09.09.2011 14:17
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Adrian
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Join Date: 03.07.2009
Yes, coding would be the difficult part. I once tried to write a program that would synchronise two pressings of the same recording. But I'm not a digital signal processing expert and I gave up.

I think something of the sort must have been used for the combining of the two 'accidental stereo' records. Of course phase synchronisation is a big problem. It may get the notes exactly simultaneous, but any real stereo depends on the constantly changing differences in phase, which synchronisation would tend to counteract.

And automatically synchronising two different performances (or three) couldn't use phasing, and would have to work on the timing of the tones themselves - probably much harder!
  09.09.2011 15:04
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yvsh
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Стерео из двух моно источников
Есть пример успешного решения подобной задачи в 80-е годы.
Фирма Columbia тогда выпустила первое CD издание легендарного диска Billie Holiday 'Lady in Satin" (CBS 450883 2).
Издание решено было сделать полностью стереофоническим.
Одна из песен (The End of a Love Affair) не имела нормальной стерео записи на ленте и всегда на виниле издавалась моно.
Остальные песни были записаны на нормальную стерео 3-х канальную ленту, как это обычно делали в 1958 году.
Удалось совместить две разных моно записи на двух разных лентах, записанных одновременно, но с разных микрофонов на разные магнитофоны.
У магнитофонов сильно отличались скорости, но каким-то образом аппаратно и программно в итоге получилась весьма реалистичная стерео версия.
  09.09.2011 17:16
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Adrian
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I will try to find that track Yury. The one I found was two Duke Ellington tracks of 1932 which are here http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/sound2.htm. These seem quite impressive, much more so than a snippet I heard earlier today, but now can't find. Maybe that was a different restoration.

The one I remembered was Elgar conducting his Cockaigne overture also in 1932. Naxos issued this but I can't find a sample to hear without logging in. I was not impressed when I heard it before.
  09.09.2011 21:15
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yvsh
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I compared two 78 rpm pressings of Flaming Youth recorded by Duke Ellington on January 16, 1929, mx A49652.
The records are HMV B.6528 and Bluebird B-10243-A.
Both were pressed from original matrices with no dubbing.
The performance is the same but the sound is different.
  10.09.2011 08:17
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Adrian
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Join Date: 03.07.2009
I imagine there are quite a few examples - but it's great to find a new one!

I always check for alternate takes, especially in foreign or unusual pressings. Some companies did it a lot (Edison Diamond Disc as a policy). But I never assumed that they might be the same performance.
  10.09.2011 09:53
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